Are You Risking Everything by Risking Nothing? | Jodi Low

So I have been a sole parent since my kids were one and three, and

that means- Wow … no time from their father, no financially, like nothing.

I got half the business debt.

I'm a single parent of two kids.

I'm like, "What? What am I gonna do? what does this look like?"

Welcome back to another episode of What's Your Story?

Mike Lindstrom, my man, Scott Leese, another episode.

I'm excited about this one.

This is a friend I've known- Yeah … for 15-plus years, who I

haven't physically seen, and that's the, that's the- Oh, my gosh … the

downfall of social media, as you know.

You see them on LinkedIn and Facebook, and you text.

But to actually give somebody a hug and actually engage in real conversation,

which is what we're gonna do here today, so I'm excited to have that.

How long's it been?

Huh?

So, oh, it was back in 2017.

Oh, so almost 10 years.

Yeah, almost 10 years at least.

Wow.

So w- she said decades, so she's correct.

So without further ado, I would call s- keynote speaker other than friend,

keynote speaker, influencer, trainer, personality in so many different ways.

Yeah.

Jodi Lowe.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you.

So happy to be here.

It's, it has been- So good to

see

you again

… Mike Lindstrom: it has been a decade.

It's

been like a million years,

but- I know, but we act like it's been like since yesterday.

I

know, 'cause it's big hugs- Yep … and we're all back to

our old- back to normal.

So we always start off with the question, what's your story?

You give us your abbreviated version, however you do, and then we

start going down the rabbit holes.

My abbreviated version, my story.

I am insanely passionate about people, and I have built my life around that.

I grew up here in Arizona since I was five, so more or less- Wow

a native, pseudo-native.

Yeah.

Went to Arizona State, loved that.

And, quickly realized that I am not a good employee.

I just did not like working for someone.

Just very entrepreneurial, always sort of have been.

And I thought, "I gotta start something. I gotta build something." And so I was doing

that with my husband of the time- Mm-hmm

at that time, and then, that kinda went in a really sideways direction

overnight, and, with that, it's really what propelled me into

starting my company, You and Improved.

So that was almost 18 years ago.

Jess, so what year was,

what year was that?

That was 2008.

Well, you had another, a name of a brand- Yeah … back

then, too, that we- Yeah … we all knew- Yeah … because the quarters

was being built in Scottsdale.

yes.

Her logo was on a very prominent spot in town,

so you would see it, and then it morphed into what you have currently

now.

Yeah, You and Improved, yep.

You

and Im- and you're solo.

I am.

I've been solo for, goodness, yeah, almost 18 years now.

So what, of those titles, influencer, keynote speaker,

trainer, other than mom and the obvious- Yes … what one do you kinda lean

all in on when it comes to your brand?

I would say trainer, corporate trainer, leadership trainer.

That's probably… A speaker.

I don't know.

They're all a great to me.

Yeah, I know.

it's so hard because it's almost like these pieces of myself that

all meld together, so it's almost saying, what's more important,

your right arm, your left leg?

It's like I need them all.

yeah, I'm sort of a hybrid of all of them all.

so take us back.

Yeah.

What was the jump-off point where you said, "I need to go into the training

world. This is what it's gonna be"?

You had your aha moment- Yeah … is what I call it.

What was that for

you?

the early aha was in college.

I always found myself gravitating toward any public speaking classes,

toward communication was my major.

I thought I wanted to teach.

I actually, was gonna go into the college of teaching, got accepted into all of

that, and then I was like, "Ooh, that's a lot of kids," a lot of the time.

I knew I wanted to be a mom one day, but, that just didn't feel right.

And so oddly enough, here I am all these years later, I'm teaching communication

and speaking and all of those things, so it was a hybrid that I didn't see

then that ended up coming to fruition.

But I just always knew that it was something to do with helping

elevate people, helping people live bigger, dream bigger.

I'd go to… I was just that crazy person that was always going to listen

to speakers and go into classes.

Anything that would challenge me and push me, I was like, "Yes,

sign me up. I wanna do that."

Yeah.

And that was really the launching point, just wanting to create

something that- any big influences there?

Professor at college, motivational speaker, a book?

Huge, yeah.

Anything that- Huge professor at ASU was, a big influence, Dr. Fred Corey,

who, has since retired, although he did come to my book launch,

which was so- Oh, that's so cool

cool, and my, uh, senior year, high school English teacher, which was so

much fun, 'cause both of them were really, really- That's neat … key

influential people in my- Yeah … like writing and speaking and all of that.

So, that was really special.

Yeah.

You, you said you realized early that- You, I can't

remember how you phrased it, but you weren't gonna be a good employee- Yeah

you didn't wanna work for somebody else.

Yeah.

What, how did that manifest itself?

what did you experience or do, or what happened where you were like,

"Yeah, this is not gonna work"?

great question, because there's a very specific moment.

So I was working in local, radio sales, and I loved it.

I was meeting people.

I was very young, just out of college, so it was, like, my first-

First sales job- Mm-hmm … first out of college, yeah

… Jodi Low: first real sales job.

But I was like, "Oh, I, this is perfect," 'cause I love people.

And I, what I loved about it, I loved working with small local

businesses, hearing their story- Yeah

and helping them grow.

I thought that was just so cool.

And then national accounts and seeing the difference with that.

I was like, "Oh, okay, helping these brands grow." I really loved it.

The thing that I didn't love was, if I'm seeing clients out in the East

Valley, why do I need to drive back to the station at 5:00 to just say,

"Okay, bye, I'm going-" Clock out.

Like, I didn't get it.

Yeah.

there was no logic to that.

And I was a big producer.

I enjoyed it.

I, you know, was doing everything I needed to do.

I'm like, "This just is ridiculous." The, and just the rules and the

meetings and all of the things that just seemed silly to me.

And I'm like- Yeah … "Well, aren't we, grown adults?

Can't we just go do what we need to do?

I'm losing time driving back and forth." So just didn't make sense to me.

I was like, "I need to do my own thing."

So did you- Yeah … literally have this thing in the wake,

or did you just quit cold turkey and say-

I didn't, no.

I didn't, I… It was really just a metamorphosis of things

that happened, a sort of a sequence of events that unfolded.

I started to work in magazine sales.

That was a lot more independent.

Yeah.

I was working from home and back then you didn't work from home, but

that role allowed me to do that.

And so then I started to see the more autonomy I had, the more I was

like, "I love this," 'cause I'm very driven, I'm very self-motivated.

So I didn't need as much of that structure.

Yeah.

I love the people part, but I was getting that with seeing clients

and so that was fulfilling there.

I just liked setting my own schedule, doing my own thing.

Yeah.

That, that felt good.

So if you watch the cast, we get a lot of

professional ladies come on here.

Okay, yeah.

And we love asking the question about, 'cause you're a mama bear, right?

I am.

I am.

how do you juggle that when you're on the come up?

'Cause they were younger.

Now at the age whether or not, of course, that's great, ASU.

Yeah.

They're kind of out of the house, but how did you juggle

that as a entrepreneur and a mama bear?

I have no idea.

I have no freaking idea.

That's the best, most

honest answer-

It is … yet.

It really is, yeah … I literally, 'cause I get asked that

question like, "How did you do it?" I'm like, "I freaking don't know."

Yeah.

I just did it, 'cause there was no other choice but to… 'Cause, so the

whole long backstory is it was just me.

So I have been a sole parent since my kids were one and three, and that

means- Wow … no, no time from their father, no financially, like nothing.

Wow.

So when that imploded, it was, like, me and my girls, they were one and

three, and I was like, "We have no businesses," 'cause I had a couple

of businesses with him at the time.

So those, I got half the business debt.

I'm a single parent of two kids.

I'm like, "What?

What am I gonna do?

what does this look like?" And I just spent some time really over those next

probably four to six weeks going, "I want to build something- That's meaningful,

that's impactful, that can- Yeah

really shape people's lives and businesses, and what is that gonna be?

And so that's when I really dove into creating You and Improved.

The funny part is I never… people always are like, "Well, you didn't, get a job?"

I, it never dawned on me to get a job.

Wow.

Like, it never dawned- that's when we talk about wired- Yeah

to be an entrepreneur.

Yeah.

It never dawned on me.

I'm like, well, I gotta build something 'cause I wanna be 100% present on anything

that I commit to with my girls, and I know I need to Keep a roof over our head and,

a house yeah And how am I gonna do this?

So that's what I did.

And God bless my dad, he was, helping out a ton to just, run them to

school if I couldn't or pick them up.

But I would just work my tail off while they were in school or preschool.

I

think- Was that a seven days a week thing

when you were getting started?

Oh, yeah.

When you were working on your business-

Oh,

yeah … every single day?

it was-

People don't talk about that enough and you're

like- No … shamed nowadays for working on Saturday and Sunday- Oh

or whatever,

but … it was around the clock.

Yeah.

It was around, it was nap times, it was, meetings in, phone meetings while my kids

were napping in the backseat of the car.

it was- Yeah … whatever it took.

It was crazy.

It was crazy.

But that's why when you say, "How did you do it?" I'm like, "I

really don't know, I just did it," 'cause there wasn't another option.

It was just if there was time, that's what we were doing.

I was gonna figure it out because I, they're my world and I have-

Yeah … to provide.

How do you, how do you coach others through a similar- Yeah, that's a

good question … experience now?

Yeah.

Because it, when your default answer is, "I don't know, I just freaking did it"-

Yeah

I would imagine that clients and people that you're coaching

and they're like, "Can you give me a little more than that?" Yeah.

Like, and so ex- can you help me through that a little bit more, Jody?

You're like, "Well, okay, h- that was the honest truth,

but now I have to find something- Yeah, that was the honest truth

more to-" There's a lot more structure.

there's a lot- Yeah … of things that, one can do depending

on the circumstance, right?

So a lot of my clients now, I do a lot of corporate training,

so working within companies for years, sometimes even decades.

Working with them to solidify how do we create collaboration?

How do we create true team alignment?

How do we do that?

So that looks a lot different than, what I was doing even in the early

days, which were a lot more individual coaching and, and- Yep … and

working with more solopreneurs.

Now I work with a lot of, from Fortune 100 to small businesses, you know?

So it looks a lot different, but the messaging is still the same.

If you are looking to be everything to everyone and not taking care

of yourself in the process, it's a recipe for disaster.

Yeah.

And that I figured out quickly.

I'm like, "You can't pour from an empty cup, right?" yeah.

Like, I can't give what I don't have.

I've got to take care of myself.

So I would still do whatever I could to make sure that I was taking care

of myself mentally, physically.

there was no question on exercising and just taking some breaks here and

there, a massage, whatever it was.

Like I had to do- Yeah … whatever it took to keep me healthy and strong.

Some form of

self-care.

Yeah.

yeah.

Yeah.

Which, I think sometimes people look at that as, oh, that's, a

silly expense or, not necessary or, whatever, some superfluous

thing that you don't need to do.

To me it's-

Yeah

… Jodi Low: if you're not doing that, you can't- Yeah … be

everything that you need to be.

Well, there's als- it juxtaposes, especially as a single

mom, closed mouths don't get fed.

Yeah.

You gotta go out there and ask and do the deal and grind and hustle.

Yeah.

But you also have that point of, yeah, if the cup's empty, it's

you gotta start with yourself.

Absolutely.

So there's this constant toggle between the two.

I, we were fascinated 'cause we had Kaylee O'Kelly on from- ABC15.

Yeah.

And she's a similar story, two kids.

Mm-hmm.

She… But the only difference was for her it's, like, her crazy morning

makeup schedule, getting on air live.

Oh, so early.

I can't even imagine doing that stuff.

yeah.

Like, I could work from my home in pajamas on Sunday or do a

call with the kids in the back.

Yeah.

But to say I gotta be on that camera live at 5:00 AM- And then

my butt's gotta be in bed by 10.

I just couldn't do

That's a whole-

That's a whole different thing

… Jodi Low: different level of-

But just, but it, just even listening to her on our podcast talk

about what she's very similar answer.

Like, I don't know how I do it, but, you know, we, you figure it out.

Yeah.

And that's where the mama bear thing comes in, 'cause you're gonna trust

your instincts 'cause you're always gonna put your kids ahead of yourself.

100%.

I knew early on just the way things unfolded, I was like, my biggest title

is to be role model to these girls.

I've gotta figure out how… I didn't know what we were gonna do.

I didn't know how we were gonna do it.

it's eight weeks after my divorce.

I'm filing paperwork for this little LLC called U & Improved.

I had no idea really what I was doing.

I was just- Wow … one foot in front of the other.

And I wanted them to see that too, though, that we can get through hard stuff.

And like at some point in their lives they're gonna be faced with challenges.

They're also gonna wonder, how did we get here, and how did we… You know,

and I've gotta build this for them.

So- Yeah … that was a big piece of it.

When

you first started, was your niche primarily female entrepreneurs,

and then it branched- In the

very early days.

Yeah.

But, for U & Improved, it was really leadership.

Mm-hmm.

I really wanted to focus impacting teams, impacting leaders.

I, I feel, and what I've seen especially now over the last 18 years

especially, there's a big gap in managing people and leading people.

And there's a whole lot of managers and not as many phenomenal leaders.

And my whole piece of that was how do we create a heart-based leadership movement?

I wanted to help people see that when you get out of here and lead

from here, it all comes together.

Yeah.

You know?

But that's a big journey.

Big

time.

And it's 18 inches, but it is the longest journey- Yes … of your life.

And when you realize, though, my gosh, when I care about my team members or

gal that answers the phone as much as I care about my biggest producer, or

my biggest customer- Wow, if I come from here, it, it all falls into place.

Yeah.

And that's the difference, and you will build a phenomenal

team when you make that shift.

That's a big shift, though.

It is.

that's the… We talked about this earlier on the cast about

this whole mouth heart thing.

Mm-hmm.

How do you get people to do that?

'Cause that is a long 18 inches.

It is.

How do

you… what's your tenets

to get there?

it's a process.

It's a process.

You know, we have a lot of different classes that dive into that.

They're immersive, they're intense by design.

Because it isn't a sprinkle pixie dust and everybody's a-

No … a heart-based leader.

No.

It's a, it's an evolution and it's an introspection, and it's a putting

things into action and seeing what sticks and what works, and what

feels authentic to that person.

Because I can do something that feels completely authentic to me and how I

would lead, and you might be like, "That's scratchy and totally uncomfortable."

Scratchy and uncomfortable is okay if it's challenging you to grow, but if it's

inauthentic- Yeah … that's not okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you gotta find that.

who are some of the big influences, in terms of trai- Like I,

everyone knows I'm a Tony Robbins guy.

Yeah.

That was my first job out of law school.

Yeah.

I worked for Tony for three years, speaking, coaching,

built his coaching company-

Yeah

… Mike Lindstrom: in 2000, and then broke off and that's how I got into coaching.

Mm-hmm.

After I helped him build his company, I started my own.

Love that.

What was some of the influences there?

'Cause you, it's one thing to go get an LLC and say, "Hey, let's go do this.

We're gonna teach this to this."

Yeah.

but now you need mentors or people that are gonna coach or train.

It could be a ven- Yeah.

I did… A lot of people gave me grief about it.

I still stand by it.

Landmark Forum.

I did Landmark- Yeah … years and years ago.

I was 27, 28.

I still say it's one of the best programs if you're willing to put

up with three days of listening to somebody- Listen to your story and- Yeah

come at you and no journal and you leave at midnight.

Yep.

My wife and I did it, when we were, got engaged.

I still love that course.

It's morphed a little bit.

It's clearly not what Est was- Mm-hmm … way back when he built

that program in the '70s and '80s.

Those were some of my influences.

Yep.

So like, what would you say you hang your hat on when it comes- Yeah

to some of your- It was a lot of different speakers, a lot of different

books, a lot of different programs.

One of the key influences though, I had the opportunity to hear Les Brown speak.

Oh,

fantastic.

And I heard… It was a very unusual circumstance.

I actually included the story in my book because it was that pivotal of a moment.

He was speaking here locally and, it was like a PBS thing-

Mm-hmm … a fundraising thing.

I'd heard his voice on the TV.

I was like, "What is going on?" And it said he was coming here locally.

And, he fills the Georgia Dome, you know?

Like- Yeah … so I was like, "Oh my gosh, he's coming here. I've gotta go."

And this is right, right when my divorce happened, like right then.

And, but I'm just figuring things out, and he ended up coming to, KTV

studios, and there was about 40 of us.

Wow.

And I was like, "Oh my gosh, he's right there.

This is crazy." And at the break he came up to me and he put his

hand on my shoulder and he's like, "So what's your story?"

Love it.

And I'm like, like- Love it … what's going on?

He's like, "What do you do? What's your…" and we had this dialogue

and he's like, give me your card.

let's talk." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." It was a big aha because it was the

first time that someone who didn't…

He, his words to me were, "You have something that I can't teach,

and I wanna speak with you." I'm like, "What does that mean?" Oh.

And I'm like, "Okay, w- is this like a sales thing?" I'm

like, "No, this is Les Brown.

He certainly doesn't need me." Right.

Like, what is this?

Yes.

And so as that unfolded, it was like, wow, someone saw something

in me that I didn't see in myself, and that was the first where the

penny dropped, like I, I got this.

Yeah.

I can do this, you know?

So-

And I've always found that people like l-

and my, I know Les is a gift-

Mm-hmm

… Mike Lindstrom: in so many ways.

people that they just have an ability to kind of see you-

Yeah

… Mike Lindstrom: and go, "Okay, I don't know what's here, but something's wrong."

You know, they say in, what was the movie?

Jerry Maguire.

He called it the quan.

Yeah.

Yeah, the quan.

Right?

The quan.

The quan.

That's one- The, I have

not

heard in a long time … the thing

you can't describe.

I love it.

The

quan.

Quan.

we

hear it throughout the whole movie, the quan.

Yeah, so Les saw my quan.

Yeah.

And then he was like, "There. There she is." "This

is the person. We need her."

What was the quan for you when you started having your aha moments?

For me, I believe my gift is I see in people what

they don't see in themselves.

So when he did that for me, and then I started to see, wow, Like

I can just feel when someone's off.

I can f- like there's just that like- Mm-hmm … okay, what's the real story?

so digging deep and then really getting into the mindset piece.

Yeah.

Because, going back to, you know, how did you do it or how did you get

through it, so much of it was this.

Had I not learned what I knew and what I learned along the way, I wouldn't

have gotten through my divorce.

I wouldn't have built a company, to what it is today.

I wouldn't have been able to do all of that had I not had all of

that training and knowledge prior.

And that was, again, the classes, the books, the speakers,

anything I could get my hands on,

how did you- Yeah, oh

find ways to scale yourself?

Oh, it's- It's

always- 'Cause you are

the product-

I'm always growing- … you could say … every single year.

Right?

What classes can I take?

What course?

And some were great.

you were talking about different ones that you've been through.

people always say, "Well, why should I go to you and approve or not?" I don't know.

Why should you?

You should go to everything.

Anything that speaks to you.

Yeah.

You might love it, you might hate it.

I've gone to things that I thought were horrible.

I've gone to things that I thought were amazing, but I learned either way.

ways of learning, ways of communicating, ways of training that I didn't

love, and then I picked up on things that I was like, "That was pivotal.

That was instrumental.

That was life-changing." it was the culmination of all of it.

But had I not experienced all of it, I wouldn't know the,

necessarily- Right … the difference or the things that worked for

me.

Yeah.

do you feel like- Integrating AI into your work and your

life is one of those kind of moments?

for me, no.

No.

It- well, I say that.

if it's, a thought starter or a, "Hey, what's another way to phrase

something?" I think it could be beneficial for those kinds of things.

Yeah.

For me, in my work, my, my whole thing is this.

Like, I love the people-to-people.

Like, during COVID, you know, yes, I, I did whatever I could online,

but that's just not my happy place

you know?

You- yeah.

You must,

you must be dealing with, companies and executives now, though,

that are having communication leadership issues and whatnot.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And they're trying to incorporate AI-

Mm-hmm

… Scott Leese: into that.

Mm-hmm.

I'm ju- I was just curious if, AI is making that worse-

Yeah … their communication leadership, or making it better.

To me, AI is gonna be a huge gift for me and my company

because it's similar to COVID.

The pendulum swung so far.

Everyone's gonna work from home.

Everything's gonna be remote.

Everything's on Zoom.

We can train, we can do everything this way.

And then we realized, oh gosh, we need each other.

Yeah.

We need people.

We need community.

We need connection.

We need collaboration.

We gotta get people back in the office more.

We've got… You know, people missed it.

Yeah.

Now, there's a lot of hybrid, great, but people missed the connectivity piece.

The same element is part of AI.

AI is an amazing tool.

It's gonna do revolutionary things.

It already is, and there's going to be that awakening of, we still have to

communicate and have human experiences.

We still have to use our minds and think critically and

strategically, and it's a great tool.

It's a, it's amazing,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I

agree … that, that's the part I see.

Yeah.

The… We're- we always talk about this in our world, too, 'cause if, you

know, if Mike's not doing the coaching, no one else is doing the coaching.

Yeah.

So I don't leverage just some junior coach like some models do.

Yep.

Yep.

That's just not my thing.

Yep.

But that's why I take on a limited number of clients and charge more money.

Yep.

So that's what we all do.

Mm-hmm.

But then you start thinking about how AI is… Do I have to create online courses?

Should I create more communities?

it just definitely throws a wrench in our-

Yeah

… Mike Lindstrom: our way of thinking of, we like to touch.

Yeah.

We like to be mano a mano.

Yep.

We wanna do the live seminar.

We don't wanna be on Zoom.

Yep.

So it's not easy.

It's not easy at all, and my mind always goes to, "Oh, I could do this,

and I could do…" I have more ideas and more things I wanna do than in- I could

ever accomplish in lifetimes plural.

Yeah.

Yeah

I, so I always have to rein it in, "Okay, what do people

really need and want? What would be most impactful? What would be most

meaningful?" and I like you, I love to, be that, in person and- Yeah … you

know.

It feels like it's raised the bar and expectation for all of us in terms of

what we're supposed to have produced.

Yeah.

So you're saying, "Oh, should I have this course? Should I

do this? Should I do that?" Mm-hmm.

And it leaves me sometimes with a feeling of like, "Well, fuck,

I guess I'm not doing enough."

Right.

Because I could and should be doing all these other things- Yeah

… all these other ideas that I have.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Shouldn't AI be allowing me to execute on everything?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well, it's interesting.

We get people coming at us, "Well, we wanna do this, we wanna do this." Yeah.

So I had forwarded something over to him.

The guy alleges to be like, "I can turn your podcast into this

virtual course," or whatever, and the simple response, "Not interested

in doing any of that stuff." Right?

B- and I didn't, and I didn't either.

I was just showing him what comes at us to keep our minds thinking

about- Yeah … what's possible.

What, yes.

Because right now we may not be wanting to go down that path- Yep … of

trying to create a virtual thing relative to the podcast, but in three

months we might be thinking, "Man, we really missed the boat on that." Yep.

"We should be capitalizing

on that." And that's the thing.

I think keeping your eyes and ears open and not closing any doors, and being very

true and authentic to who you are and your best way of- Delivery or connection.

And it, for many, there's online programs that are perfect and a lot

of people love to learn that way.

There's others that's just not their thing or they prefer this.

So, you know, that's great- Yeah.

Do you do you have virtual courses?

No?

No, not really.

Okay.

everything I do is pretty much live.

I can… I do it virtually, but it's still live.

So

one to many.

Yeah, nothing recorded.

You'd be in the studio piping out to 50 people, 100 people.

Yeah.

And that's to the public audience or that's to a private

group, like a private company?

Private group.

Private group.

Okay.

Yep.

That's- that's the smallest part of what I do.

Got it.

That's maybe 5%.

Okay.

And it's more for clients that I'm already working with in New York

or Minnesota or Mexico , you know.

Yeah.

I need to reach them and I can't be the, in front of them, but it's always

in conjunction with something I'm doing live because I just feel that's my sweet

spot.

So do you ever just have the leader, like the CEO calls you up cold or

warm, they see you on the podcast- Yeah … go, "Hey, we want this Jodi

to be my coach." but I don't want you coaching my company or my team." Mm-hmm.

"You know, I just want you to work with me one on one." Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

D- is that an option?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or do they say no?

no, I do.

I work with individual executives.

Okay.

I work with leadership teams and then obviously organizations.

it just depends on what they need.

Right.

But absolutely.

So yes, I do that and, oftentimes that's a great way to really

connect with them, understand their business and their culture and,

you know.

Yeah.

I actually prefer it.

Yeah.

You want that.

when I've like I had one last week, it was a guy said, "I want you to work with

my sales team," he's talking about all this great stuff, the budget and what they

wanna do with the team and of course I ask him at the end, I go, "What about you?"

Mm-hmm.

He's like, "Oh, well, you know, I'm trying to

make my salespeople better.

I want them to get better close ratios." I'm like, "Well, who's gonna lead them?"

Yeah.

Speed of leader dictates speed of pack, so what about you?

Mm-hmm.

I said, "My proposal is I just coach you for six months." Mm-hmm.

"And we'll, that'll happen by-product."

I literally, Mike, had this conversation end of last week, and,

I was talking to the CEO of a company and he's like, "Well, I've got a

couple of executives that I'd love to put through this," and I sa- you

know, and I said I'd like to come to your class, the one after that.

can I do that?

'Cause I can't make this one." I said, "If you're committed and they know

that you're coming to the next one, yes." But if you're not coming or if

you're saying that, not showing up, no.

Because- Yes … pays of the leader, pays of the vet. yes.

So if you're not, if you're expecting someone to do something

that you haven't done or aren't committed to doing, not my client.

Yeah.

That's a good filter though.

yeah.

Oh, it's 100%.

It's a,

it's a philosophy.

It's a great filter.

I don't think many people have that philosophy from the get-go.

In

the early days- no … I think, you know, when you're just

starting out- In the beginning

you're like- Sure

I need every dollar or whatever, right?

Yeah.

The answer is

yes.

I will coach, yes,

yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That comes with experience and wisdom and a little bit of financial security

probably where you can say, "No, that's not gonna be the right kind of client for

me. I don't wanna deal with that-" Yeah.

"… for whatever reason."

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

if somebody had that right from the beginning, I wanna meet them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

'Cause I didn't have that.

No, I did not have that.

In the early days, I think, yeah, you're figuring it all out.

I remember one of my earliest, big moments like that, I, fired a client

that was, just getting ready to launch, everything was getting ready to go.

I was gonna be training 300 of their engineers and, their whole topic

was trust, and we've gotta create more trust in our environment.

And then it came to just getting all the details and logistics and specifics

around the training, and we'd gone through everything and what it would be.

And then it was like, "Well, what are you gonna say when you first start?

And then what are you gonna say?

And then what are you gonna do?

And then, well, how about the, what are you gonna s-

You're like, "Come on,

man.

Come on." My brother, if there's a trust problem, it's showing up right here.

I am not your girl.

yeah.

If you can't trust me to fulfill my role and responsibility in delivering

this, we're not… and everyone to this day is like, "You fired who?"

But you have to stay congruent with your brand.

I mean-

A hundred percent … you're

not being yourself- Yeah

… Jodi Low: if

you're

authentic.

it feels good to fire clients-

Y- you know what?

… as they say no to certain types of business.

it was a big one too, and I was like- Yeah

"You know what? That is not who I want to engage in. I'm gonna be miserable." Yeah.

And life's too short for that.

that, yeah, that's true too.

There's other better clients that are more aligned.

bad groups and bad contracts are not good.

What are the main problems that the clients that you're

talking to or prospects that you're talking to are dealing with right now?

is it different now than five years ago?

10 years ago?

You know, I don't know that it's different.

I think retaining great, employees is tough.

I think finding great employees is tough.

I think we've got that generational thing where, you know, people- … are bitching

and moaning about the younger generation.

It's like, this happens every generation.

Well, it- This is nothing new.

Oh, yeah.

People also don't go work at one place for 40 years

anymore.

It's just different.

Yeah.

And so if we're not able to adapt, so I think adaptability is big.

communication is always at the crux of it, you getting people to just be

able to give and receive feedback and be honest and collaborate and figure

out how do I fulfill my role and responsibility while simultaneously

helping you r- fulfill yours?

How do we do this collaboratively, and how do we create alignment in our

organization that really moves the needle as opposed to siloed thinking or, my job

is more important than the- Mm-hmm … the overall organization's goals, you know?

Yeah.

W e'll see those

kinds of things.

do you have an NLP background or no?

Neurolinguistics?

No?

No.

No.

what kind of- I didn't

know about it,

yeah.

Yeah, so what kind of tools do you use?

we use DISC a lot- Mm-hmm … or Drake, some of the, I use Maxwell stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Five Dysfunctions of a Team I've used before.

Do you have any tools that you really like that are maybe not yours?

yeah.

Any of those that you

throw alongside?

Yeah, not, I don't really incorporate a ton of outside tools.

Real Colors is one that I use.

yeah, of course.

That one I like, only because I'm not a huge assessment person.

Mm-hmm.

The only reason I really love that is because there's a lot of other

training that I can build in with it- Yep … and around it, so

I think it's a great framework.

It's easy, and it's very fun.

Yeah.

but other than that, it's really all of our own proprietary stuff-

from our Two and a half day classes.

Most of what I do I custom create for the client- Yeah … so.

Smart.

One of my training partners and I-

Yeah, that, that's, Five Dysfunctions came my way from

the company that I knew the CFO.

He goes, "Mike, you're not gonna be- This guy's bought in

on Five Dysfunctions." Yeah.

I'm like, "Okay. I'll, yeah, I'll use it."

Yeah.

but it'll wrap nicely around the stuff I teach.

So I'm not opposed.

That's why I was curious as a fellow-

Yeah, no, there's- … content creator … that's the thing.

It's like, again, what speaks to you?

You know, if there's certain tools that a trainer or a coach

or a speaker, great, you know.

If that- Yeah … if that's what works for you and that, that modality or that-

Yeah

you know, there's a million thing- N- no one has recreated the wheel.

Can we continually enhance it or change it or make it different and unique or s-

or connect with a person in a new way?

Sure.

Yeah.

What I don't love is when it becomes w- "That's not my job"

or- I agree … "I can't do that," or well, you know- It's not my

style … he's a this or she's a that.

Yeah.

That's where I'm like, "Eh."

I am who I am.

But I'm like, that's against adaptability.

If you say, "I am who I am," then you're not getting into adaptability.

And a lot of

these companies will say that, like, "You are who you are and,

you know, if you take this assessment, in 15 years you're gonna be exactly

the same. You are who… You can't change. This is you." And I'm like-

Yeah

… Jodi Low: everything I believe is about you can always change.

Yeah.

You can always improve.

It's about a choice and decision.

Yep.

So that's where I'm always at odds with that philosophy so.

Yeah.

I

agree.

Yeah.

What about, real quick, outside of work.

Yeah.

what other projects are you doing outside of your passion?

my biggest passion is travel.

So any time I can get away with my kids or significant other, you

know, when we can just do that kinda stuff, that's my happy place.

So- Yeah … love to travel.

yeah, but in terms of projects, just doing more of what I do and creating

new ways of approaching different people- Yeah … in different ways.

Yeah.

Any

new books coming out or any new

content?

no.

I launched my book a couple years ago, and that's been- What's the name?

Just- … From Me to You.

From Me to You.

Always with the you.

yeah.

Which, people are like, "Why the you? Why the you?" So that's, just a big-

Yeah

… Jodi Low: anchor for me because- I,

I know it

when I started my company, it was always like, "It's about you.

If it's about me, we're done." Love it.

It's gotta always be about you, so I use that as my little anchor.

But, yeah, so From Me to You is, my book that I launched a couple years

ago, and really leadership lessons that I've learned throughout my life,

personal stories attached to- Yeah

the leadership lesson within them and helping the reader-

Yeah … connect with that.

It's good.

Yeah.

Is your… Ha- have you found that your motivation for growing your

business has increased since your kids went off to school, or has it shifted?

I'm asking this because I'm about to go through that.

He's about to go through that.

yes.

You're

like, "I'm right there." And I'm next.

You

should get to be a coach right now.

One that's about to fly out of the coop- Mm-hmm … and then I'm a

couple years away from the other one.

And one of the things I've been thinking about is when I

have nobody in my house- Yeah

and it's just me-

Yeah

… Scott Leese: am I gonna work more?

Am I gonna be more motivated to do more stuff, or am I gonna be like,

"Nah, that's it. I'm done." Yeah.

I did it already."

You know, it's different.

I don't think it's an increased motivation.

I'm, I've kind of always been highly motivated, so I

don't think it has changed.

I think it's just different.

My motivations are building in more downtime, which sounds kind of crazy,

being really efficient with my time.

Mm-hmm.

making sure that I'm working with … I'd rather work with fewer

clients that I absolutely adore- Right … than spreading myself too thin.

So I think it's just shifted in that way.

making myself available for the things that also matter outside of work.

my work is my absolute passion.

I really truly love it.

It gets me up early.

It keeps me up late, and I also wanna make sure that I'm doing the other

things in my life that I love to do.

But,

so it's not so much about just I did 10 million last year.

I need to do 15, and then I need to do 20." No, I- That stuff starts- I mean-

That part of the growth has changed

a little bit for you?

Not as much.

Not as m- it's, yes, it's always about growing 'cause I find that

exciting and whether that's growing personally or grow- growing financially,

all of that's exciting to me.

I also, I'm in my early 50s.

I, almost mid, early mid-50s, and when I look at the calendar and I look at,

it's like there's less sand in the top of the hourglass than the bottom, you know?

Yeah.

And so I'm really deliberate with my time now.

Yeah.

Whereas before, I don't know, I, I think it, there was so much

survival mode in the early days.

You know, 20 years ago is different than today.

but now I'm very intentional.

Very intentional.

That

resonates

with

me.

Yeah.

I think I'm-

I don't know.

Maybe that's- … I think I'm doing more

of that

as well.

Yeah.

I'm behind him by a couple … Colt's a freshman, so I got four more years, but-

Yeah

… Mike Lindstrom: I do think about that a lot.

Of course, you always think about, we've been married 20 years.

Yeah.

I'm proud of that, but we always talk about that.

What's our life gonna look like after that?

Are we gonna travel?

Yeah.

She's a judge, so she's not exactly, you know, a,

an entrepreneur type where she can just pick up- Yeah … and leave.

Yeah.

I think she loves what she does.

She'll probably be on the bench as long as she loves being on the bench.

Possibly.

Could be till she's 75.

Wants to,

yeah.

so here's a question for you.

Yeah.

Th- this is, put you on the coaching seat.

Okay.

So tomorrow- I have a, it's a six-hour facilitation.

It's an off-site here in town.

A bunch of entrepreneurs are coming in from out of town.

Like a, kinda like a YEO, YPO type of group.

My buddy's the chapter, in charge this month.

Okay.

And he sends me this themes that, they really wanna hit.

Mm-hmm.

In this word, I've been hearing this word come up more.

Okay.

I'm curious if you've heard this word as well.

Enoughness.

It's right there in the script.

We wanna know more about how this is, which ties into really when is enough?

Is it balance?

When, what's your number?

When should I retire?

Should I wanna be able to go out and sell?

But if you had to be the coach tomorrow-

Mm-hmm

… Mike Lindstrom: and you had one or two themes that you'd wanna

do to talk about enoughness-

Yeah

… Mike Lindstrom: for seven or eight people, what would you tell them?

I'd wanna know how they define enoughness individually.

Yeah.

My enoughness might be different than yours.

Yeah.

I'm sure it is.

I'd wanna understand how they define it- As a group.

Yeah.

And then individually understand, well, what does

that look like for you?

Because, I've got people close to me that are gonna plow and drive because

they are so invigorated by the- hunt and the thrill and the build.

Not just this, but just what they get to build.

They get the, they, lights them up.

Mm-hmm.

So that enoughness is different than the person who's like, "You know what?

I've worked hard, I've built this, and now I just, I want to enjoy

it," or, "I wanna watch others run it while I go do Y." Right.

Or, "I wanna build something new." Yeah.

And change, shift gears, or follow a passion I've never done.

yes.

So to me, I'd wanna understand what enoughness was for each of

them, 'cause I think it's too big.

yeah.

It's too big of a concept to, to, you know-

Have you heard this term a lot?

I haven't heard this-

I haven't heard it a lot, no … not till

recently.

I've

never heard the phrase.

It's come up twice in the last, or three times.

That's interesting.

This is the third time in the last 90 days.

I don't know who's out, somebody on in- Instagram is probably promoting it and-

It's probably like a little Barbie takeoff, you know, with Ken

and Kenough and that whole thing.

I never thought of that.

It's probably come from that.

everything good comes from Barbies

somehow, right?

I'm gonna bring, I'm gonna bring that up tomorrow.

Some good movie.

I'm gonna bring that up.

Like, is this a Ken and Barbie

reference?

Where is this- I'm gonna show, I'm gonna show a clip at the

beginning of my training.

I'll just-

Right?

" Mike Lindstrom: Does this guy have brethren with him?"

Yeah.

No, but I, of course, naturally, you know, this is a coach,

you ask yourself the first question.

Yeah.

Like, "Well, what about me?" Yeah.

Well, what's enough for me?

What is enough for me?

is it the money?

Is it college funds?

Oh, I just… I've had a guy tell me last week, he's like, "Mike, I just

wanna get my kids through college-

Mm-hmm

… Mike Lindstrom: and then they're on their own.

It's not when they're 18 and they're on their own.

It's when they're all through college." When they're done

with school. "I paid for that.

I didn't want them to have debt.

And then whatever happens." Yeah. "That's enough." And I'm like, Okay.

We'll see in five years." Mm-hmm.

'Cause I know this is entrepreneur-minded person- Right … who, like you,

he wants to, he wants to go out there and impact the world.

Mm-hmm.

You don't just change.

Yeah.

I can't imagine just hanging it up, and like, "The money's

there, so I'm done." Like- But

you travel, though.

That's not a

bad

thing.

I don't… Yeah, traveling's great, but I still

would wanna do what I do.

Yeah.

Like, I'd still wanna be, it, I'd still wanna be speaking.

You can do what you

do from anywhere though, can you not?

True.

yes.

I, certainly in person.

So

you could go live in Italy for three months and then

go live here for three months.

Absolutely.

Absolutely, yeah.

Right?

Where's

the favorite place you've been, travel wise?

I went to the North Pole.

I went to the Arctic Circle.

Oh, wow.

Whoa.

And that was- Damn … that was- Bucket list right there … amazing.

amazing.

Not the answer

that I was expecting.

It

was my- No, no, no.

When did,

when did you do that?

It was my 50th birthday gift from my brother.

Wow.

And, it was one of the most epic experiences of my life.

I- So

what'd you get out of it?

What was the things that you took away?

How vast this planet is, how little we are, how insignificant

all the BS is Yeah … all of that.

And learning more about polar bears and polar ice caps and what's happening

to our planet and how if we keep doing what we're doing, it's- Yeah

th- that was just a gut punch.

So a lot of that, and seeing it firsthand, yeah, it was-

What is the process like to get there?

I flew to Par- my brother lives in Paris, so I flew to Paris,

then we went up to, the very, very northern islands of Norway.

Wow.

And then you take a ship from there.

How long is that ride?

Which is crazy.

It's, like, off the map.

Yeah.

It is off the map.

it was several hours.

Yeah.

it was a ways.

I can't even remember now, but- Boat?

Yeah, boat.

And it was a- We're talking about,

like, a, we're talking about, like-

It's a French cruise line, and that-

Oh, okay

took me there.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it's a ship.

Mm-hmm.

Like a, okay.

Mm-hmm.

not a massive- How many days?

No, don't think,

like-

I didn't realize that … Royal Caribbean, nothing

like that I feel motion sick

already just thinking about it.

you don't like that?

He doesn't like being on boats anyway.

No.

He's not a cruise guy.

Yeah, I'm not a cruise girl, and neither is my

brother, so don't think, like,

this

is like a royal point, my

point- No, I got you.

You're talking, it's a point, you wanted a point B. Yeah.

You had to get there that way.

Yeah.

no, it's very beautiful.

It's a, like a luxury-

Yeah

… Jodi Low: yachty type experience.

Not yacht, but- I know what you mean … very ni- yeah.

And it was epic.

Wow.

It was just amazing.

So it

was the best- I wanna get

50 … 50th birthday gift.

I mean- That's a good 50th gift.

Yes,

I've got a wonderful brother

. Mike Lindstrom: So you said mid… I always do things in zeros and five.

I'm 53.

Okay.

I'm 53.

So

I got

50…

Yeah, 55- Yeah

will be my next one- Yep … when at the benchmark.

Yep.

So what do you give yourself at 55- Oh … if

it's gonna be a travel gift?

You know, I don't know.

I haven't go- I haven't gotten that far.

I'm, I'm too, in the moment.

I'm still looking, I'm staring down 54 first.

We don't

wanna- So I haven't gotten that far

we don't wanna count ahead, right?

We wanna slowly

roll.

sometimes I'm like, "Wait, how old am I?" 'Cause sometimes I'm like,

"I'm 54." I'm like, "No, I'm not.

I'm 53.

How old am I?" So- … I get myself confused.

So I gotta ask you about the, 'cause you mentioned

off-camera, so the girls are at ASU.

They are, yeah.

How often do you see them?

How often do you talk to them?

How has that changed from being a mother to a friend?

And I know a lot of people have beliefs about this.

Yeah.

And they, you always gotta remain this or that, and I don't stand on this.

Yeah.

I know how my dad treated me, and I'm gonna model a lot of that.

Mm-hmm.

But what's your take on that- Yeah … now that they're in college?

So they're in college, but th- they are and aren't.

So my oldest daughter was studying abroad this last semester, and so

her first year she was in the dorm.

Next year she was in an apartment, then she studied abroad, and then she moved

back home for the rest of this year- Yep

her junior year.

It's been fabulous having her home.

Wow.

As a young adult, I mean, 21.

She's, remarkable, you know?

and so that's been super fun.

My youngest daughter's a freshman finishing up the dorm thing, and, yeah,

she's been spending more time at home recently because she's getting ready to

move out of the dorm, and it… there's a lot of dorm problems at this dorm at ASU.

Okay.

So she's sort of over the hot, steamy dorm situation.

but she'll be in an apartment next year.

The three of us, we're sort of like the Three Musketeers, though.

we've just… it's always been just us.

Yeah.

So we're really, really close.

Yep.

which is awesome.

Yeah.

So it's been a,

it's been fun.

I've s- I've what's your take on that- Yep … with social media and

your family, and what you share?

Completely shifted.

Com- in the beginning I was like, "Oh, this is…" When it first, I posted

everything 'cause I thought it was so much fun seeing everyone's life, and then I'm

like, "This is… why am I doing this?

Why are we posting?" You know, like, I don't understand.

So I mean, somebody graduated- Mm-hmm … or it's a, some big event.

Other than that, it's only just business- So it's

not, so it's not a-

work stuff

… Scott Leese: it is business stuff.

Yeah.

So you use it a lot for

business.

I do.

I do- Yeah … because a lot of our stuff is really visual, and it's- Yeah … so

much fun to, to kinda see and share imagery from some of our big events.

but other than that, I don't do a whole lot on there anymore.

No?

No.

But people

wanna see that other part of you, don't they, Diane?

I do,

I d- I do a little bit, but I just, it's not like, "Hey, I went here

this weekend or there that week." Oh.

what about, like, strategic posting?

Like, if you say, that's one thing to go on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, I'm grateful

to be in front of X, Y, Z company," 'cause you have- Yes … good social proof.

Yeah.

Totally get that.

But if you said, "Hey, this is gonna be a informational piece, and I'm gonna have

me talking to the camera for two minutes, talking about goal-setting," to Instagram.

Yeah.

Is that something you're like,

" Jodi Low: No"?

I do really short little snippets, and it's typically something that

just came up in my mind as I'm driving or I just got done with a training.

It's something that just stuck with me, and I'm like, that's a good little

lesson or point or something that people could find value in." Yeah, I'll just

literally talk into my phone and do it.

There's not a whole lot of,

Afterthought

Yeah, it's just- Yeah … sort of an in the moment type thing.

Things I do.

Yeah.

Yes.

No, that's, w- we get frustrated- Those are things … 'cause we'll put

a ton of afterthought into something.

Yeah.

Like for example, when we first did our first true

LinkedIn post announcing it.

Yeah.

He's got like 100,000, 20 plus on LinkedIn.

He's got a huge following.

Yeah.

And I, you know, I've got guys that were helping me post,

kind of giving us all a, to reshare it.

Yeah.

And we're kind of looking at the numbers going, "That

is paltry." Like, what, what is that?

But we al- we know now, we know the algorithm, and they

don't want you promoting.

Right.

They want you bringing value.

we all get on… We do that out, in advance.

Yeah.

But there's certain posts that are just completely random.

Yeah.

Like you had one recently, I love the one you talked about, feminism by the way.

that was a little edgy.

I thought that one might take off.

Yeah.

It

was authentic, though.

Because it was like-

It was authentic … a little- It's edgy and auth- On the edge

you have to go and see.

I'd love you to hear a take on it.

Okay.

Yeah, I wanna hear.

I wanna hear.

But it didn't.

If you hear a guy talk about that-

That

probably- But it didn't.

And then you have another one, and you're talking about something that's

like boring, like, I don't know, how to make a cold call, and it's

poof.

Yeah, and you're like, "Really?

That's

the

thing that

takes off?" It's impossible, is impossible to try to figure out-

It is … what's gonna work or not.

So frustrating.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It- There is no rhyme or reason.

But I've always liked asking that question of

entrepreneurs, social media.

Yeah.

Like how it plays into your life or not.

Yeah.

And, what, your daugh- are your daughters on it pretty-

They are.

also, they, but not like super, here and there.

They're very mindful of what they post, and it tends to be more

aesthetic than anything else.

Sure.

Like, you know, it's like the cool vibey pictures and- yeah … those

kinds of things, but less of like- They,

well, they had a- … " "Oh, look at me" … they had

a good, but they had a good l- teacher.

Oh, well.

I love that.

they're, speed of leader, speed of pack, right?

So tell us, we always close out with a couple of little asks,

like which favorite book all time?

A, a book I really like, and this is not a leadership book, but just

a book I really like is Chasing Daylight.

Love that book.

Haven't heard that one come up in a while.

That-

No one's said that one on the podcast yet.

No.

That one's a favorite.

I, and I think, again, I think it's probably this phase

of life that I'm in- Mm-hmm

where it's like, aha, time is precious.

So, so that's one that, that I love.

yeah, and there's a million leadership books I could, I could-

Give me one

… Jodi Low: go on.

Give me one.

Of course, you've put me on the spot and I can't think of a dang book.

Like mine's Viktor Frankl, Man's Search For Meaning.

Man's Search For Meaning.

That's my number

one.

That is my number one.

Man's Search For Meaning is right up there.

I have a list and I literally am just blanking on everything I love.

Tony Robbins is of course,

Awaken the Giant Within.

Tony Robbins.

there's lots of Les Brown, there's lots of

Tony Robbins.

Les Brown, you gotta go with

Les.

yeah.

He's still alive and kicking, man.

He is.

Principles you live by.

Anything, like you get to talk to the audience, say, "This is the one of

my big values, something I live by."

It doesn't have to be a quote.

Yeah.

It

could be something from your teachings.

There are a couple quotes.

"Leap and the net will appear" is a big one for me- Good … because I do feel…

that coupled with, "Risking nothing is risking everything," because I do feel

like those both really embody, not just my journey, but I think so many people

I meet, leaders I meet, individuals I meet, play safe because it's comfortable.

Yeah.

And so-

Yeah.

where did I, where did, where'd you read that one from?

I think it was Morning Notes- Decades … with Julia.

Decades ago

Yeah, she wrote

a- I literally had that quote in my- It's a great quote … first

office and I would always look at it.

I'm like, "Yeah."

But I always tell people, first you have to jump.

Yes.

I can think of about a half dozen people I wanna

send that quote to right now.

Yeah.

It's a great quote.

But everyone's always standing on the edge.

Just go.

Just do it.

Just push

them.

Just go.

Risking nothing is risking

everything.

That's what the coach does, is push them.

Oh, my gosh.

the medal will appear.

Yep.

It'll appear.

Get out there.

Got anything else you're promoting?

Talked about website.

Where do we find you?

Instagram, social?

UandImproved, with a U. Yep.

Uandimproved.com.

That's a company website.

we do our w- two and a half day immersive leadership classes-

Love it … throughout the year.

which are open to the public as opposed to our private, you know, corporate training.

And in August, we have our adult class, but once a year

we do a class for teenagers.

Nice.

So 14 to 18 years old.

I actually started a foundation 12 years ago that provides

scholarships for deserving teens that couldn't afford to go otherwise.

So it is a game changer.

Cool.

So those are big.

It's coming up the weekend of August 7th through 9th.

So-

We'll make sure we promote that- Yes … for sure.

Yeah.

Well, Jodi, thanks for taking the

time.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank

you

so

much.

It's so great seeing you both.

Great seeing you and meeting you.

I know.

When do we convene after 10 years?

Yeah, I know, right?

Let's not make this 10 more

years.

no.

Not 10 more, for sure.

And

we have to, we'll have to bring you back on.

I'll come back.

I would be happy to come back.

Good.

That'd be so much fun.

Great.

Scott Lease, Mike Lindstrom, Jodi Lowe,

thanks for anoth- episode.

Tune in next time.