Is Buying Followers Worse Than Fake Photos? We Ranked It | Jam Session 4

What do you make of all this drama with the WNBA right now?

Oh, man.

I knew you were gonna ask about the WNBA.

I knew it.

The first filter is white privilege.

That just struck me wrong.

And the fact that now she's trying to backtrack

She said that's not really what she meant by it, but then she

never explained what she did mean by it.

Yeah.

That's what I have a problem with.

You wanna say that's not what you meant.

Okay.

Well, if you want me to remain curious and try to, hear your perspective, give

me your perspective, because all you did was say, "That's not what I meant.

It's about something else, something deeper" And I'm

like, "What's the deeper thing?

Of course, that's what you meant.

And this is the part where I know guys like me, 53-year-old white

guy that's gonna say this on a podcast where people are gonna say, Oh, okay.

I don't care what race it is.

Yeah.

If Caitlin goes in there and says, "Oh, Black privilege,"

during a game, can you imagine?

Mm. Or anybody for that matter

Intro Band: Lean in closer. This is your time.

Hit record on your crooked

life. What's your story?

(Hey!) Say the words out loud!

Mike & Scott gonna crack that crowd.

What's your story? (Hey!) Turn it up, let's go!

Every voice. Every scar.

Every road. What's your story?

Mike and Scott.

Let's talk.

Welcome back, Mike Lindstrom, my man, Scott Leese, "What's Your Story?" hey,

by the way, we're mixing it up today.

We're pretty pumped, people tell us all the time, Scott, what about you guys?

What are you guys about?

What do you guys think?

What do you believe?

What are your favorite type of things?

So we though we'd mix it up a little bit today.

We didn't really share notes with each other.

We're kinda playing a little game here.

Like I got my notes, you got your notes.

And we've done this before, by the way.

When we first started this before

- Scott Leese: Yeah, a long time ago.

…trial runs, we did these virtually where we got to

know each other at a deeper level, even know each other for 20 years.

So we're gonna act like we really haven't and start to get

a little deeper with each other.

So I'll let you start.

Yeah.

So you get to ask me whatever the hell you want.

It could be a question, it could be a curiosity, it could be a

rapid fire, it could be a rating.

I've got kind of the things I wanna make sure I hit, because I know who you are.

And I'm not gonna embarrass you, I promise you.

[laughing] but we try to play in each other's sweet spots.

I'm gonna ask him questions that are completely out of his specialty,

but they're life principles and fun things that we could do.

So I'm gonna let you kick it off.

There's no rules here.

Okay.

Every, anything's on, everything's fair game?

Everything's fair game.

So there's no

- Alright.

…no cutting things off.

You have to answer every question.

That's the rule.

All right.

Okay, let's go.

I'ma

- Mike Lindstrom: I'm in.

I'm gonna start by

- Mike Lindstrom: …I'm putting my notes down.

I'm gonna start by teasing you a little bit.

Let's go.

You're a corporate guy.

I'm gonna call you a corporate guy.

Let's go.

I'll play that guy.

Okay.

I got five corporate buzzwords for you.

All right.

Let's go.

I want you to rate them S, A, B, C, D, F, whatever.

Oh, I, yeah, like everyone does on social media, right?

Yeah.

S is the highest.

F is like failure.

Yeah, F is the worst.

Somebody, I got five terms and you could tell me whether you like them, hate them.

Ready?

I'm gonna look right in the camera so

you can't even see me flinch.

You ready?

Rate these corporate buzzwords.

Go.

" Synergy."

C. And "synergy" is not a bad word.

It's overused, but I do like it because I think there's a time and a place when

you do genuinely need to have synergy.

So it's not supreme, but it's definitely not a failure.

Okay, okay.

" Bandwidth" . [laughing] F.

F

He hates "bandwidth".

I hate bandwidth.

That's a 1999 2000 dot com.

Remember I'm a dot com guy.

Yeah.

People always used to say "bandwidth" and "double-click" and "drill

down" and those are on my F list forever.

[laughing] I love that.

[laughing] Okay.

What about "growth mindset?"

B. Not A. I like "growth mindset" because there's "fixed mindset"

and there's "growth mindset." So I'd be, remiss if I said that's a failure.

But I think, again, it's starting to get into that word that's more

overused and I would, blame social media for that because I think a lot

of social media people don't know what it means are using it in the wrong way.

Right.

But I'll give it a B.

I got two more.

Go.

"Circle back."

Oh, D. it's not in double click and bandwidth

because that's def F forever.

That's a D category I actually coach all my account managers and salespeople.

There's three things you can't say.

"Circle back," "follow up," and "checking in."

Yeah, "just checking in".

Those three words or phrases or language

patterns are off-limits

- Scott Leese: Yeah.

…with all of my clients.

You have to find three new ways to say those things, so I'll give it a D.

Last corporate buzzword/phrase for you.

"Move fast and break things."

I'll give it an A. I like that one.

You like that the corporate guy likes the startup mantra.

I like that.

I do.

I do like that one.

I don't think that one's gonna really go anywhere, man.

It's because

- Scott Leese: It's gonna stay.

…it's got relevance in tech, it's got relevance in startup,

it's got relevance like corporate guy, if you're gonna put me in corporate, a lot of

people in corporate don't know that one.

That's more like a

- Scott Leese: It's a startup thing.

That's right.

Yeah.

But if we can bring that one over into that

world, I think it's a good hit.

Yeah.

All right, what else you got?

Okay.

You got a few and then I, then I get a few.

Okay.

Okay.

Blindly rank one through five.

Blindly ranked one through five.

So you're gonna give me five things.

I'll give you five things you're gonna say this

is a four, this is a three.

But you don't know what's coming, you don't know what they are.

Shoot.

Rate these

Can I reorder them or no?

After the fact?

No, you can't reorder them after the fact.

That's the whole point of the blind rating.

No, let's go.

Rate these platforms for B2B thought leadership.

Okay.

In 2026 and beyond.

Let's go.

Not historical, 2026 and beyond.

Ready?

YouTube.

A, that's an A.

No, no, no.

One, two, three, four, five.

Oh,

sorry, one.

Sorry, my bad, my bad.

What's, that's, that's a number one.

YouTube, number one.

That's number one.

Because it's YouTube, it's Google, it's… We're on that space.

That's what we've been trying to lean in.

I'd be incongruent not only as a corporate guy, but as a podcaster

because that's something that it's been that, that fish that's always gotten

away from me, us, for a long time.

But if you can get to that spot and really own it, there's money to be made.

You have bigger influence, short form, long form.

Google, YouTube's not going anywhere.

It's number one.

Wow.

That's the one that I have the, that's the one I have the

least amount of followers on.

It sucks.

And it's hard, it's the hardest nut to

Crack.

It's a hard nut to crack.

Okay.

You and me both.

Okay.

YouTube, that was number one.

Okay.

LinkedIn.

Ooh, you know where I stand on LinkedIn.

I don't know what you have coming, but I'm gonna put the set of four

because I think there could be other things might be below it.

LinkedIn is one of those things that's changed quite a bit over the

last, especially the last five years.

When I got on LinkedIn, it was a whole different ballgame.

People would connect with you.

There were networking.

Now it's all showmanship, showwomanship.

You're trying to prove… It's basically become modern day Facebook

in a way that you're trying to… It's like check me out, check me out.

People aren't really following the strategy, so I'm gonna

put it at the four spot.

Okay.

TikTok.

TikTok.

For B2B though leadership.

Yeah.

TikTok, it's probably number five because most people that are in our space

that, that are not really on TikTok, I look at my own clients, for example.

Most of them don't even have an account.

Okay.

We've got slot two and slot three left.

Oh, let's go.

I feel safe.

I feel good.

X/Twitter.

Twitter.

[laughing] Oh, man.

I'm wondering what you got next coming.

I'm gonna have to put that one at a three.

Because people are still on it.

Let's be real.

I mean, I was on Twitter for a long time and did very well.

I got my, followership really up, then kinda left it for

a while for many reasons.

But people are still on it.

Yeah.

People still are on it.

I see some of my CEOs still, pontificating on there, which I'm like, "Wow, you're

not really on LinkedIn, but I went over to this Twitter universe and

you're pretty active over there."

They're everywhere there.

On Twitter.

So they're, people are there and they're getting topical

things and they're going there.

I think that's a three.

Last one is Instagram.

It's two.

I think that's, I think that's a good, that's a good number.

I mean, one, two

It's not a bad, not a bad list.

You and I would be completely BSing because Instagram's

something we both pushed all

- Scott Leese: Yeah.

…last year.

You did pretty good.

And we're doing good.

I'd say that's a two.

You did pretty good.

I don't like the fact that you put YouTube one and that's my worst one.

But you and I are in the same boat, so we have to work on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Last one of these.

One through five blind ranking again.

Okay.

I like this.

I like

You like the blind ranking?

I, I like you not having an idea where I'm going.

Dang it.

Rate these ways that people fake it in business.

Number one meaning this one pisses you off the most.

The most.

Douchebag.

It's douchebag category.

Number

Douchebag meter.

Number one is the most.

Number five is the least.

Least douchiest.

Okay.

Ways people fake it in business.

All right.

I'm in.

Stage candid photos for content.

Staged?

Performative photo.

You know the ones I'm talking about.

I do.

I do.

We can't really do them.

I know.

It's so douchey, but it's in the middle of it.

I think it's three.

I give it three.

Right in the middle.

Okay.

Because I can see certain situations where it's appropriate, even

though it's not one of my favorite.

That still drives me nuts when I still see my teenagers doing selfies.

Yeah.

I think selfies are nuts, but I understand it.

I, every once in awhile, you don't have any around, you do a selfie.

So I'm gonna put it right in the safe spot of a three.

Okay.

Fake urgency in sales emails in particular.

Fake urgency?

Yeah.

Ooh.

[chuckles] I use that one, man.

It's not too douchey, because I think that's a good strategy.

I'm gonna put that lower on the list.

That's not… I think that's a four.

Four.

Do you think there's one that'll be

Yeah, I think there is

- Scott Leese: Less douchey.

…because I do use I'll, I use time - the calendar.

I would say use the calendar to your advantage.

Okay.

Okay.

So I teach it.

I preach it.

I gotta stand behind.

Number three and four are gone.

You got number one, two and five.

All right.

Inflated LinkedIn job title.

That's pretty douchey.

Motivator, creator of the compellingness to motivate the world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I still have two.

Number one, number two, and five.

I'm gonna give that a two.

Number two.

I give that a two.

Okay.

It's got a little bit of that scratch board

on the board when I see it.

I would hope by now people have learned to get back to authenticity

and use some of your titles to try to create some compelling statement.

I'm gonna go two.

Thought leader with no results to back it up.

Self-declared though leader maybe is a better way to phrase it.

I, it drives me nuts.

But the reality, but that's a reality.

I watch social media.

I've ex I think it's super douchey, but I've come to learn to accept it because

I've learned how to weed through it.

So I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna have to give it a five.

You're gonna give it a five.

I have to give it a five.

The last one, your most douchey one.

Yep.

Buying followers and engagement.

That, that, perfect.

That's pretty good.

That's perfect.

Buying followers.

Fake.

Yeah.

I mean,

That's

I,

You know

100% I mean, but that's all

People do this.

But people don't know what they're looking for.

I mean, we

People do this.

…killer post out there every once in a while and

you'll see, oh, that's not an account.

That's not… these are people that are following us, but there's bots out there

in the world that people pay for to have them go out there and act on their behalf.

Everybody sees those accounts that have 500,000 followers

and they make a post and they get like two pieces of engagement.

Yeah.

It's like that's all, that's all.

He bought that.

Yeah.

You bought that.

So give me one more.

You want one more?

One more and then we're good.

That'll be three total?

That was three total.

That was three already.

That's three already?

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

You want one more?

No.

Oh, okay.

All right.

Let's go with someone.

Let's go with

I'm nervous.

Okay.

Now this, let's go a little

I'm nervous now.

We're gonna go blind on you then

Okay.

Since you're pulling this whole blind one to five thing.

So one is the high, great, awesome thing.

So one is awesome.

One is I like it.

Five sucks.

Okay.

Okay.

So the question is, so you get… I'm gonna give you five.

You don't know what's coming.

Rate these ways to spend a Saturday with no obligation.

You ready?

I'm not even sure I know what that's like, but yes.

I know.

Okay.

So number one, the first thing I'm gonna mention, you have to rank these.

Sleeping in past 10 AM.

Five.

That's impossible for me.

I can't do it.

That was fast.

I can't sleep in past 10:0 AM.

I'm 49 years old.

[laughing] It doesn't happen.

You gotta get up and go pee in middle of the night, right?

[laughing]

That's impossi- that one's impossible.

That's number five.

[laughing]

All right.

All right.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

All right.

Golf.

Oh, number one, probably.

Number one?

I don't know what else is coming.

I'm gonna go straight to the top already.

All right.

You, you're

- Scott Leese: No obligations.

You're proclaiming it.

I would love, I would love to go with my, with my kids or my friends.

Get outside in nature, beautiful views.

All right.

All right.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

Yeah, that's number one.

All right.

Watching football day or some other sport all day.

Just sitting there and camped out watching sports all day.

I'm not gonna lie.

I could do this still.

Really?

Yeah.

Depending on the sport

Buffalo Bills.

I miss zero Post game.

I miss zero Buffalo Bills games.

I miss zero Liverpool matches.

So I'm gonna put number two.

Number two at the top.

All right.

[chuckles]

I've got three and four left.

Okay.

Uh-oh, this is funny.

Working out, then brunch.

No, that's four.

Yeah, no go.

That's four.

I don't wanna work out and then go eat.

No?

No.

That doesn't

- Mike Lindstrom: You gotta, you gotta earn your

- Scott Leese: That doesn't do it for me.

You gotta earn your drinks.

You gotta earn your food.

I'm gonna go work out and then I'm gonna

go undo everything I just did.

That's the point.

That's not what I do.

You go burn 400 calories so you can go put four

I don't like

That's a thing.

You know that sort of thing, right?

I don't know that's a thing.

Earn your beer, that's a thing.

That's a phrase people use.

Earn your people.

All right, four.

Four.

Getting stuff done around the house.

That's, that, that's a three.

I, I actually like my list.

I like your

That honest, my list is very much me.

That

I like doing stuff around the house.

I give myself a little honey-do list and I really enjoy crossing things off the list.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

We'll stick to the one to five thing again.

All right.

So the, we're gonna go, one high, five low.

Okay.

Same format.

So rate these travel styles.

Travel style.

Okay.

However you travel.

Could be with partner, it could be friends, could be

with your kids, doesn't matter.

Okay.

It's how you think of it.

Okay.

All-inclusive resort.

Five.

My brother does this with his family.

He loves it.

He loves the all-inclusive resort.

Everything's taken care of.

Drop the kids off.

They're entertained.

I'm entertained.

I don't wanna travel that way.

Really?

I don't.

No.

I wanna go

No unlimited food, unlimited drinks, no?

No.

No,

It's not me.

Sport wristband, go up there.

It's not me.

I, I don't wanna be, I don't wanna just dump my kids off at the daycare and like

Yeah, I gotcha.

Eat all…

Yeah,

Unlimited food, but it's like buffet food.

Okay.

It's like an unlimited Denny's level quality.

No, I, I don't… I'm, I'm not an all, I'm not an all-inclusive guy.

I'm gona throw a curveball at you at the end on this one, bro.

I don't know what's coming.

I'm not an all inclusive guy.

I'm throwing a curveball.

I like to travel differently.

I'm adding to this one.

All right.

Also, the places I go that I like to go are,

don't even have all-inclusives.

Okay, you ready for the second one?

Yeah.

Okay.

Backpacking with no itinerary.

Now I've done this, but I was also, 19

20.

20 years old.

I'm gonna say two.

Okay.

Because I like the spontaneity of it.

I like the idea of not really having a plan.

I don't need much luggage, so I can still fit everything I need in a backpack.

I don't really wanna walk 100 miles wearing this backpack, but

that wasn't part of the equation.

I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go two.

All right.

I could, I could do that one.

I could see that one.

All right.

Business trip, both on vacation.

You and I have done that move a million times.

Oh.

Both business trip, both on vacation, either before or after.

I don't wanna go number one because business and

travel is not, it's not my ideal.

I would go, I'll go number three.

I'll go number three.

I'm a big fan of this.

I've run the Surf and Sales Summit for eight plus years.

It often backs up against Thanksgiving, so I go run a couple week-long,

events and I'm already out there.

I stay out there, bring the kids out for Thanksgiving.

That's the pro move.

Yeah, it's a pro move.

Hey, didn't something happen last year where you went to, uh, last

one, you got stuck somewhere.

That was

- Mike Lindstrom: Cause you were able to really bolt it on it.

Yeah, that was, two years ago, I think.

Flew down to Costa Rica and they had this, unseasonable amount of rain

and the airport got flooded and all these people were supposed to come in.

They couldn't make it.

We were, like, triaged.

It was… I was like a, what do you call it?

Like a travel agent.

[laughing]

My partners and I, Jeff and Richard, we were all

on the phone with somebody here and trying to coordinate them.

And actually, like, half the crew never even got to make it out.

Wow.

Because the coast, the airport in Liberia and

Costa Rica got washed out, and all the roads got washed out.

It was a mess.

How many more days did you stay there that you didn't plan on?

At least six.

It was about a week.

I remember you were down there.

I think it was about a week extra.

I couldn't leave.

Yeah.

Couldn't go no nowhere.

Yeah, all the stores were closed.

One day, I think I told you that I, ate nothing but, a power bar

the whole day because nothing was open, no grocery store, nothing.

Yeah.

I had this one thing in my backpack, that's

all I had survived on that day.

Yeah.

I remember you sent me some cool pictures of some stuff you guys were doing.

That looked fun.

Yeah.

Surfing.

Right.

[laughing]

All right.

Road trip.

Oh, I think the only one I have left is number one, right?

No, we got one, two, three.

Oh, I have a four and a one left.

Yeah.

Road trip.

Damn.

You're screwed, man.

[laughing]

Oh, I might have boxed myself in.

[laughing]

Your reaction is telling me I should put road trip number one.

I'll, I'll go number one on a road trip.

All right.

Surf trip, road trip.

Man, this is a tough one.

All right.

This is going in at slot number four for me.

What is it?

Cruise.

Oh, God.

[laughing] Cruise would be five.

I wanna switch.

I don't wanna be on a boat.

[laughing] Give me the all-inclusive over the boat.

[laughing] All, I, I… Oh.

What's the difference?

You… It's all inclusive on the water.

I don't wanna be on the water.

It's seasickness.

I got a funny story for you.

Oh.

Do you remember the Costa Concordia, the, the Italian

cruise line that went sideways?

No.

It's a horrible story.

Yeah, it was the Italian cruise line, the blue & white Concordia.

It happened.

The captain

- Scott Leese: I'm blanking on this.

…said, left the ship early.

This is about five, six years ago.

Wow.

There's a Netflix documentary on this.

It's Italian cruise line.

Monica and I were on the same boat, same exact boat.

Really?

Same exact cruise that goes up and down Italy for

three days, three years before that boat went upside down.

Damn.

There was no… it's crazy watching the documentary.

I recognize some of the, entertainers in there.

I had such a good time, but this was before kids.

I could see the land off of the distance because it literally ran aground.

It wasn't like it went down at sea.

They were along the side of Italy.

People could swim, over to the shoreline, legit.

You put me on the middle of the Pacific Ocean or forget about it.

Yeah.

Forget about it.

I've seen those other horror shows where the

Ah.

Can you imagine?

I've been on a cruise twice.

I, and both of them were work related.

I won a cruise through a sales contest, and I said, "I'm, I'm never again."

Pass.

Yeah.

All right, you got one more.

You ready?

One more I'm ready.

Big one.

Rate these ways people show off their wealth.

Rate the ways that people… So think about what I might be asking here.

Okay.

Ready?

Watches.

In ter- so number one being

Like a great way.

The best way to show it off?

A great way to show off your wealth would be your watch,

Right?

[grumbles]

Or is that the worst way?

Five.

I'm gonna go worse.

You're gonna go five?

Yeah, but I think it's… I think if I was extremely

wealthy and I spent an absurd amount of money on a watch, that's, that's

Yeah.

That's a waste to me.

I'm, I'm with you on that.

I'm with you on that.

I'm gonna go five.

All right.

Cars.

I'm not a huge car guy, so I'd probably go four.

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'm not going and buying a Lamborghini

or a Ferrari or anything like that.

I'd probably get, a little surf wagon that I could dump a bunch of surfboards in,

Yeah.

A little beat up some kind of truck for that stuff.

Fun, maybe one kind of funnish car.

There is a guy

I go four.

If there's, if this guy's out there, I'm calling you out.

This guy drives an orange Lamborghini

Here in Scottsdale.

In Scottsdale.

He pulls it up to Fashion Square, the big mall here, at

valet, every single Saturday.

I know this because people have told me.

I've only seen him, once or twice around town.

He revs his engine.

He comes out, he has a $100 bill, very obviously in front

of everybody, to the valet guy.

He's super douchey, if you saw him.

No, again, what's my rule number one?

Don't judge, be curious.

Yeah.

So I'm curious about the guy.

I wanna know what he does, what the hell makes him thinks he's cool.

Goes in.

I have no idea what he does and does this every Saturday.

Damn.

Orange Lamborghini.

What is he doing in the

- Mike Lindstrom: That's the highest level of

- Scott Leese: Why would you go to the mall?

I don't… To show off.

Every Saturday.

But why go to the mall to show off?

You're showing off your wealth.

Dude, I don't know.

That's a strange place to show off.

Number… The third one, real estate.

Oh, real estate.

Your home, your investments, your

second home, your lake house.

You know?

I'm gonna go two.

Two.

I'm gonna go two.

If you came up to me and you were like, "Scott, I got a beach house

here. I got a lake house here. I got a mountain house here." I'm not gonna lie.

I'd be pretty impressed, I think.

Yeah.

It, it kinda puts you in a different category.

I kinda like it.

Yeah.

I'm with you on that.

Yeah.

Ooh.

PJ, private jet.

That's gotta be number one.

Whoo.

That's gotta be number one.

That's a flex.

Yeah, that's a flex, man.

A PJ, man.

I don't have to deal with TSA and, the same

amount of delays and everything.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's pretty

Do whatever I want in that plane.

That's a tough one then.

The last one here I'm gonna throw at you, just not showing it at all.

Just be humble.

That went right in the middle.

Right there?

Right in the middle.

That's pretty good.

Right in the middle.

I know of a guy

Do you?…

Who is worth an absurd amount of money.

And he wears, the most old jeans, t-shirts, drives this, beat up car.

You would absolutely never know he has any money whatsoever.

Yeah.

To the point where it's like, dude, you should

probably spend a little bit.

Yeah.

It's just a game to him collecting

- Mike Lindstrom: Yeah.

Money.

Yeah.

You'd never know.

Wow.

He just flies under the radar.

So, there's a weird amount of respect I'll give that.

I gotta… Okay.

I'm with you on that.

I think there's something about the humble, but there… But

you're showing off your money.

You're not showing it all.

How do you… Was it people talking about you behind your back?

How do you know?

Like, how's that guy… How do people know that guy's wealthy?

You know because you have a relationship with a guy.

Because you know, you know what he does.

Yeah.

And you just kind of

- Scott Leese: You know what company

- Mike Lindstrom: …you make deductions.

Yeah.

You surmise.

You're like, "Oh, you're in the

- Mike Lindstrom: Yeah.

Farming business.

Oh, you're in oil.

Got it.

Oh.

Yeah.

Oh, your last name is that?

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Oh, I could connect

- Mike Lindstrom: Gotcha.

These things.

Kennedy.

Got it.

Yeah, exactly.

[laughing] Exactly.

Exactly.

All right, so let's mix it up a little bit.

We got a little bit more time left.

Hot topics.

Hot topics.

I got a hot topic I wanna

- Mike Lindstrom: Alright.

…ask you.

You go first.

You throw one at me and I throw one at you.

I got one that

This one's hot, dude.

Okay, let's go.

Just be careful with it.

All right, let's go.

What do you make of all this drama with the WNBA right now?

Oh, man.

I knew you were gonna ask about the WNBA.

I knew it.

First time ever.

I know.

I know.

I know.

It's driving me bananas.

But you know what?

Here's the thing.

They have a brand.

Whatever… I think they're trying to figure out the brand.

You're talking about the WNBA brand.

The WNBA itself.

Okay.

Let me start there.

They have a brand, and they're still trying to figure out what their brand is.

So that's their struggle.

Apparently, there are memos that went out to all the owners this

week saying, Hey, who are we?

We need to figure out who's gonna be in this league?

Who's not gonna in this league?" And when you got two NBA men trying to

make a mockery of it, but they're not trying to make a mockery of it.

They're trying to make a point.

It's like, "Look, if you're not gonna make definitions to take hard-light stance

about, young girls or men and women, then I wanna be in the NBA, put me up for the

draft." Now it forces the hand of the WNBA to say, "Hey, who are we in reality?" So

that's what's happening at the WNBA level.

Where I really get problematic is the lens of the racial thing.

That's where I struggle.

The white privilege tweet

- Mike Lindstrom: 100%.

…you didn't like that one?

That drove me nuts, because No matter who tweets it, when

they tweet it, if it was black and white, if the tables were turned.

All that aside, when I watch basketball, period, I don't see color.

I see a bunch of people p going out there doing their passion.

There's no part of my brain going, Oh, that's because she's white.

Oh, that's because she's Black." I don't watch basketball or sports

for that matter through that lens.

It just doesn't even cross my mind.

Even when something happens, somebody gets a hard foul on them,

somebody gets ejected from a game.

Racial filters don't cross my mind when I watch sports.

It just doesn't.

I watch sports to be entertained.

Most of my favorite athletes of all time are African American.

Michael Jordan, my favorite athlete of all time.

I never though, oh, he's this.

And I love Larry Bird.

Larry Bird's a white guy played for the Celtics.

I love him equally as much.

I love when Larry Bird and Michael Jordan played against each

other and just crush each other.

Yeah.

And they have an amazing friendship years later, and

they get on TV and talk about it.

The… I don't see that through a lens.

So for somebody to have something happen and immediately go into the locker room…

And again, I don't know much about her.

I don't.

I don't follow her per se.

But she immediately, her first instinct is to go to the locker

room and go on social media.

Mid-game, by the way.

Huh?

Mid-game.

Mid-game, which by the way, in most sports, that's not allowed.

Yeah, it's

- Mike Lindstrom: You're not supposed to be on your phone.

Yeah.

If you're an MLB

- Scott Leese: Yeah.

During any time during the duration of a game, if you're on social

media, anything, period, you're fined.

Yeah.

Period.

Yeah.

That's just a rule.

You can't have phones in the dugout.

I mean, I have friends that play in sports.

That's a no-no.

So the fact that that happened, that's one.

But two, the first filter is white privilege.

That just struck me wrong.

And the fact that now she's trying to backtrack and say, "Oh, I didn't

really… That's not what I really meant by." It's like, look, you wrote it.

These are your words, your thumbs put it on there.

She said that's not really what she meant by it, but then she

never explained what she did mean by it.

Yeah.

That's what I have a problem with.

So what's your take on that?

You wanna say that's not what you meant.

Okay.

Well, help me understand what you did mean.

Right.

If you want me to remain curious and try to, hear your perspective,

give me your perspective, because all you did was say, "That's not what I meant.

It's about something else, something deeper" or something like that, she said.

And I'm like, "What's the deeper thing?

Of course, that's what you meant.

And this is the part where I know guys like me, 53-year-old white

guy that's gonna say this on a podcast where people are gonna say, Oh, okay.

Coming from that per I don't care what race it is.

I don't care if it's Asian, Hispanic, or whatever.

If the, the tables were turned in any way, shape, or form, somebody

else said it on somebody else.

If it was Hispanic on Black, Black on White.

If it was any other context, people look at it a little differently.

Not say it's right or wrong, but people look at it differently.

Yeah.

If Caitlin goes in there and says, "Oh, Black privilege,"

during a game, can you imagine?

Mm. Or anybody for that matter.

If somebody says, Oh, um, remember when we had the Asian invasion

in the NBA, when the Knicks

- Scott Leese: Jeremy Lin.

Jeremy Lin comes in the league and they're like," Oh my God, this

is amazing." Then somebody comes there and makes a comment about his Asianism in the

middle of a basketball game in the NBA.

Can you imagine what would happen?

Yeah.

He's Asian.

Yeah.

Okay?

So what?

He's a great basketball player.

Yeah.

So the fact that when we start to affix

race, I understand it's there.

I get it.

Understand the difference between Black and white and Asian when you're

watching the game or the last names.

But when you go out and you play the sport, you go on there to unite.

That's why I love watching the World Cup.

The World Cup.

Cause you see all these people coming together.

Or the Olympic team or something.

Yeah.

I didn't see, oh, that guy speak Spanish or he's from… I just saw

a bunch of people playing a sport that was amazing and having fun.

Yeah.

That's how I saw it.

Yeah.

So that was what I struggle with.

It's a shame that they're getting attention for what feels like

and seems like the wrong reasons.

Yeah.

You know?

You want it to be on their athleticism.

Yeah.

The competitiveness.

Yep.

How they're becoming more popular just because the sport

is growing and they're inspiring everybody, not just young girls,

but just like everybody and whatnot.

I agree.

And now it's just

It's all cloudy.

Race or

- Mike Lindstrom: It's cloudy.

…gender or

It's cloudy, man.

Fair play or compensation.

It's just oh, shit.

Yeah.

Can you just fucking play the game and

Yeah.

You know?

I agree.

Yeah.

All right, so I got one for you.

We've talked about this whole concept of how much should

we really protect our kids?

We've talked about snowplowing.

Snowplowing is a term being used in the media, getting out ahead

of your kids and protecting them.

Now we're getting to the next level where countries are saying

illegalized social media for teenagers.

What's your stance on that?

I think Australia did that and France and

somebody else is considering following, if I'm not mistaken.

Now, and then lawsuits are coming against the government now

saying, You can't do that." And these are in other countries, not in America yet.

Yeah.

Cause america's gonna say freedom of speech or whatever, right?

Yeah.

Which I understand.

Yeah.

But what's your stance, legal aside, when you say, you come in

and say, We've done it with seat belts.

We've done it with cigarettes."

Yeah.

We've done it with voting.

We've changed laws or drinking alcohol." the government has come

in and said, "No, we now don't longer, no longer think it's 16.

It's 18.

That's not 18.

It's 21." Should the government step in here and say, Hey, this is just another

prong where we need to step in for all y'all out there and say, Hey, this is

something that you guys aren't regulating.

We're gonna do it for you.

I think my answer to this has gotta be no.

Okay.

Because once you allow government to come in and

say what somebody can or cannot do, especially how somebody parents

their kid, now you've got problems.

So okay, so today it's social media.

Tomorrow, it's what?

Right.

What about adult websites?

Obviously, the argument could be made that should happen, whether

you agree with that or not.

By the way, that is happening.

Yeah, that, that has.

So cut that out.

Cut social media out.

Then what?

What about gambling?

Right.

I'm not… I'm more worried about gambling sites, frankly, than I

am about my kid being on social media.

Yeah.

I agree with that.

My kid can be on or whatever those other sites are.

Yeah.

Just in general, I think I don't want government

telling me what I can or cannot.

Yeah.

It does make it easier in some ways though, because if I

was a parent in Australia, I'd be like, "Oh, it's not me, Timmy."

Yeah.

You can't be on, Instagram, you can't get a

Snapchat account until you're 16.

What do you want from me?

Right.

Yeah.

No,

I know.

So from a parent perspective,

Yeah.

Oh, you just took the, I can't be blamed.

I'm off the hook a little bit.

Blame the government, son.

No, you're right.

Yeah.

You're absolutely right.

No, it's true, like with pornography, that's been a big

move in the last three years.

In Arizona, I don't know if this is in Texas, but if you were to go and, my

wife's a lawyer, I get to read all the latest and greatest in the law world.

For example, and I'm not a porn guy, just full disclosure.

I know I've been on it.

I know it's out there.

I know kids do it.

I've talked to my kids about it.

I get it.

But if you were to go to any given website, what's called the big ones

back in the day were like the big conglomerates were, Pornhub, they

own like a million websites or

Yeah.

You can't access that one in Texas, by the way.

RedTube was another conglomerate.

If you were to go on there on my phone right now, you couldn't go on it.

You have to verify.

It knows where you're pinging in from for your IP.

Yeah.

That you're in the state of Arizona, you have to prove your ID that

you're 18 before you go on the website.

So they've already done this with pornography, being 18.

Yeah.

Why can't they just do this with social media?

They already can blacklist whatever it is, Facebook, Snapchat.

They can, but do they need to?

I don't know what, but why porn, why did they

draw the line of pornography?

I don't know.

Pornography is equally as bad for a young person, a young mind.

Is it?

It's,

My son is on social media and he literally is watching

videos about the stock market.

Sure.

About soccer and football and stuff like this.

I totally get that.

So it, it's not all harmful

Right.

Is my point.

I do agree with that.

Okay, the pornography side

I agree with that.

You could argue all of it is harmful.

I do agree with that.

When you listen to our guy, Haidt, who combined his book about the

next generation and the generational problems with social media, it's

the way the brain is not ready to be able to process this like this,

the scrolling, the seven seconds.

So it's not just the content that, well, what's coming through

that screen, but it's what that's happening in that seven seconds.

Okay.

So a fully developed adult brain is at what, 25, I think?

I don't even know that.

I think, somebody out there is gonna correct me, but I

think it's like the brain is not fully developed until you're 25.

So you're gonna keep people off social media till they're 25 then?

Yeah.

Cause the argument is, this is my point.

It's a slippery slope.

It's a slippery slope.

When the government starts getting involved

- Mike Lindstrom: Yep.

I agree.

No, I,

That's tough.

I see both sides of it.

I see both sides of it.

Well, we gotta do more of this, Scott Leese.

That was fun.

This is fun.

I love to do these kind of banters.

They're quick hitting.

We learn more about each other and we do appreciate that.

Thanks everybody for joining us on another episode of

What's Your Story with Mike and Scott.

I'm Scott Lease.

This is my good friend, Mike Lindstrom.

Thanks to our guest for joining us today.

Make sure you follow them on all the social platforms.

Make sure you follow us on all the social platforms as well.

And check out whatsourstorypod.com for future episodes, past episodes,

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and we will see you next time on What's Your Story with Mike and Scott.